Jose Flores: 0:00

Get the privilege to talk to the legends and warriors or the martial arts world. Today I am being joined by none other than Thomas Martin. Mr. Martin is a black belt in various systems amongst them. Judo, campo bkf Campo and Taekwondo. Mr. Martin, how are you, sir? I'm good night. Good to be here. Nice to have you here. Again. Thank you for coming in. Thank you. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, this is this is great. So, you know,

Thomas Martain: 0:30

Mr. Nunez is here with us losing the news. But I remember the first time I saw you, it was 2002 2003. With Collin vandusen. Right. I just remember walking in his studio. There was a little hallway. I don't know if you remember back then. Oh, yeah. I see this person with this green gi. And this look. And I was like, Who is that? I mean, I felt that the vibe that? I don't want to mess with this person. Right, Nigel? hyzer. How are you? Pleasure to meet you.

Jose Flores: 1:02

I mean, I felt that I was like, wow, who's this person? Ever since then? I've been a fan. Well, so for those who don't know, you, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Thomas Martain: 1:14

You're on me.

Jose Flores: 1:16

But you know, by even recognizing me, but yeah, I've been in the martial arts for a while.

Thomas Martain: 1:21

Probably a good 4546 years.

Jose Flores: 1:28

started when I was like eight years old.

Thomas Martain: 1:31

Kind of fast forward it

Jose Flores: 1:34

you know, I've been out of the martial art world, I used to be extremely serious. Extreme. Lee serious. So I've been out for probably a good solid 10 years, where I kind of more focused on family more focused on career. And, you know, kind of took that path. Now. Let me back it up. Yeah.

Thomas Martain: 2:01

Start out when I was eight years old, my uncle Louis, you know, my eighth birthday, said, A, I'm giving your mother money, which was my my, my, my mom's brother,

Jose Flores: 2:15

who was a Vietnam vet. Master Gunnery Sergeant and Marine Corps, which I did not know until later on. In my life. I thought I was the only marine in the family found out not even close. So

Thomas Martain: 2:29

he paid for martial art classes when I was eight years old. And I hadn't stopped training sets.

Jose Flores: 2:36

Not at all a good No, no. That's why I'll just say well keep going. Yeah, it's really weird. Brought up and brought up in Georgia. All right.

Thomas Martain: 2:46

Like I said, I'm from. I'm from Marietta, Georgia. But my family is around Milledgeville and other parts of Georgia.

Jose Flores: 2:56

Since slavery, since then, we've always been there.

Thomas Martain: 3:02

But

Jose Flores: 3:04

grew up in Marietta. That's where I started my martial art training. Under Larry mclr.

Thomas Martain: 3:11

Larry mcore, to me was more like a dad more like a father figure.

Jose Flores: 3:17

He kicked my butt. You know, he held me to task made sure. I've never had anybody that made me pay for not having good grades. He made me pay. And I carried that on to my own training of my own students. I held them accountable, just like I was held accountable.

Thomas Martain: 3:37

Larry was a great influence all the way up until he pushed me out of the school.

Jose Flores: 3:43

Because he said I had a, an anger problem. And he wanted to balance me out better. So I thought he was kicking me out. I thought he was kicking me out of the school. I'd been training with him for a good strong,

Thomas Martain: 3:58

oh, six to seven years. You know, and he's always, you know, he was always that male figure that I aspired to be like, and he helped. He turned me over to master wat NaVi, in Smyrna, Georgia.

Jose Flores: 4:15

Plays called defense arts. He was he was a specialist in judo. judo. He was a Japanese Judo practitioner.

Thomas Martain: 4:25

I think he also did some Judo stand up style, but Judo was his main main flow.

Jose Flores: 4:32

He held me over to him. And I thought he was abandoned me. I thought my instructor was like, pushing me away. No,

Thomas Martain: 4:40

he was very much involved mess whatnot. Me and him were close, close friends.

Jose Flores: 4:45

Being from Georgia, being that I'm a black male, American. So I thought, Well, great. He's just throwing me away just wants me to come here and I was the only black

Thomas Martain: 5:00

Kid, adult, whatever, I was the only black in the school. So I really felt kind of out of place. And I was never allowed to come to or to be on the floor. And this was traditional Japanese judo. For wood springs in it. It was a hardwood floor raised. It had spring system in it for falling. There were never a mats, we had thick mats on the outside, where you could practice hard falls, or hard throws. But pretty much we always practice on there. I was never allowed to get it get up there on the wood part. Probably. I was probably 13 or 14. So yeah, I was known as 12. Holy crap, I was 12.

Jose Flores: 5:45

So 12 and 13. Right around that area.

Thomas Martain: 5:50

Yeah, I wasn't allowed for maybe a good year. To even touch that top. I had to learn all this other learning how to fall learning how to roll. I cleaned the floor every day twice in a class once when I got there. Yeah. And then after, right before I left, it was my job, my job in about three other people. But it always changed but I was constant. And the other people that helped me changed. Yeah. And it was traditionally we'd roll up a towel, he would kind of throw some stuff out there, I guess it was wax. And we would like a crab like a like a, we call like a bear crawl, bear crawl kind of thing, where we would hold on to it and just push off and slide the towels back and forth on the floor. And I would do that I had to cover every inch than the other, we would go online and do it about 10 or 20 times. And then I would finish it up. And my finishing up would be going up, down, up, down, up down. And then he was finished. So that was my childhood being introduced to judo. I had to do the tension, the the What do you call that bicycle tubes. Okay, I had to do that every day in the class. Well, long story short, though, after that year, and I was allowed on the floor for the first time. I didn't understand as a kid, I was just ambitious. And I wanted to learn I wanted to prove myself. Well, all this time, I didn't know he was building me up to really do what he and I became like, highly competitive. To the point where I was like winning tournaments, tournaments back in those days, were like five bucks, oh, to enter. So I'd asked my mom for money and, you know, every weekend, and then I'd ask her for a ride. And what I'd end up doing is going with one of the adults in the in the, in our school in judo school, and I end up competing, and we're talking like two years down the road two years in. And I was I was good. I wasn't very, and I never thought I was good enough. I was always proved myself always like, I gotta push to do this. I want to be I don't want people to think that I'm less than, you know, or I'm or I don't belong here. So I pushed hard. I pushed hard. All through my high school. One of the biggest secrets in my high school and I went to a southern kind of a small town, Marietta High School, shout outs, Marietta High School. Here we go. Also to Marietta high school. I went back recently, a couple of years about it. Oh my god, almost 10 years ago, but I went back and I found out my high school is now the junior high. Oh, Marion High School is a whole new place. But But my whole time in high school. I competed. I wasn't competitive. I would do karate tournaments and I do judo tournaments all the time. It but I didn't play sports in school.

Jose Flores: 8:58

Okay,

Thomas Martain: 8:58

I didn't. So everybody was looking at me like, you'd look like you're in good shape. But you don't. Like I remembered I was doing a this is a funny story. This is a crazy. One of the pep rallies. Well, I was in the drama club. Right. Okay, I didn't do any sports dude. No, it wasn't the biggest secret is I was a highly competitive martial artists in high school. But nothing and no one knew. I didn't tell a soul. No one. I repeat, no one knew except one person. And I'll come back to that. Yeah. So I'm doing my stuff. And, you know, being all secret ninja, right. So I'm doing this pep rally and the drama club did a little skit. And in that skit, there was a table about three feet high. And we were doing our skit and from a standing position I just put right on top of the table. There Track without bending my knees. And the track coach goes, Hey, have you ever thought about running track? football coach comes over a year playing football. So it was kind of it's funny, but I never did. I never played high school sports. I did get involved with the tennis team because I was forced to not attend or did not at all. And I think I only played for like two weeks, and then just get it done.

Jose Flores: 10:31

You stick to any sport, martial arts, martial arts.

Thomas Martain: 10:34

Well, growing up, I was a swimmer swimmer. Yeah, I swam for a club. And that was my love outside of martial arts. Swimming was my love. So I was good with the I do freestyle breaststroke. And then I did a medley relay. And I was really good. Matter of fact, I took state championship at the age of 11.

Jose Flores: 10:59

No toss.

Thomas Martain: 11:01

Yeah, so that was the other thing I did outside of that, but nothing ever. Nothing ever ended in for like high school sports or anything. So

Jose Flores: 11:08

So let's go back to that one person that knew you were practicing martial arts? Who was this person?

Thomas Martain: 11:15

Um, Gordon Island. Gordon Island. Just is the best guy I could have ever grown up with. He was my best friend. Okay, that's right. He had a sister by the name of Avery. Great Dad, you know. And Gordon, I grew up in the same little complex. And I met him. Funny. That's a funny story, too. I met him when I came back as a foreign exchange student. My freshman year I was a foreign exchange student in the Netherlands. So when I came back, first thing he ever said to me was Oh, world traveler. Are you doing? Right? So Gordon Gordon was a just a very eclectic, intelligent, dude. Way over me. But Gordon, used to fence he did actually competitive fencing. He he was very open minded about doing things and experiencing stuff. Just a great dude. And we went through our whole high school experience. He's the only one that knew that I studied martial arts and I studied seriously. And that I competed with and I'll tell you that, the weird thing about that, Gordon, today is one of the I would say one of the high members of a martial art organization. He is a black belt. He owns a school. And he's one of the top status people of that school. So much so that he had there's other there's other branches of his school, like in other states, and he's the representative that goes to all of them and keep them connected. His wife has a black belt martial arts. And it was funny because I was his first instructor. He He taught me fencing. Okay, and I mean, really taught me fencing. And I taught him martial arts.

Jose Flores: 13:18

It's incredible. Yeah.

Thomas Martain: 13:19

Oh, the side of our house. It's kind of funny. And we did it in secret, you know. And today, he is this real martial artist, you know,

Jose Flores: 13:29

incredible. And these to keep up with Gordon, you know,

Thomas Martain: 13:31

what I saw a couple years ago, he actually he and his family traveled in a RV for a year traveling around the United States. To stop off and stopped off and I met his kids and, and his wife and, and, and saw him and seeing him. Man, it was 25 years. 30 years. Wow, even more than that, but yeah, it's been a long time. So when we saw each other again, as soon as I saw him, yeah, that same guy. Yeah. Yeah. Great, great guy. Shout out to to Gordon. here's, here's how Gordon Gordon went to. Like, I went to the Marine Corps. So I went to a Military College, straight out of high school, went to a Military College, went to the Military College for about a year and a half ran out of money scholarship ran out, everything ran out. And and that's another story. My, my biological dad, who was never in my life wouldn't put up the money. And he could. That's not a judgment call on my part. He actually could. But what took my mom to court and said, No, I'm not going to support this kid. I don't care if he is a cadet and will be an army officer. We're not supporting him. And I remember being in uniform and my cadet uniform in Milledgeville and the judge leaning over and telling me, he goes, son, I'd be proud to have you as a son. He goes, but I have to, I have to, you know, the law says, I gotta, you know, I, it's gonna go on your dad's favor, because my dad bought a lawyer the whole nine yards. So I ended up from that I ended up going to the Marine Corps, because I was so pissed off. I was like, You know what, forget it. I'm gonna go, I'm just gonna go. I'm gonna go for the Marines. And me thinking that because I was a I went through pleading hazing. I went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for army officer boot camp. I thought I was ready for the Marine Corps. No. I put my foot in those regain yellow footprints and realized I was not in Kansas no more. But yeah, long story short, I ended up you know, Gordon ended up being a great influence on my life.

Jose Flores: 16:02

That's awesome to hear. Yeah. Then. So Marine Corps. How did How was that experience for you?

Thomas Martain: 16:11

You know, what I think is probably the best thing I could have ever done. The best, because

Jose Flores: 16:17

when you started you, I mean, you said, your instructor said you had anger issues, but you're the one of the nicest and homeless person I've ever met.

Thomas Martain: 16:30

He's dynamic. Here's a dynamic being raised by a southern mom, very ambitious mom.

Unknown: 16:40

Who

Thomas Martain: 16:42

I didn't have an anger issue. In my own mind. I wanted to prove myself to my instructor. Okay, so every time I did anything, I did it at 135.999%. Right, I did it way over. So and we didn't have punching bags, because I started my martial art career in a basement of a library. And our punching bag was a rolled up carpet, shag carpet. So you know, the base, the bottom of the shag carpet is really rough and right. So I learned the punch and punch properly by having many many bloody knuckles. And I remember my Larry klore, my instructor told me, Hmm, well, I guess you should quit that. I don't think you can take this. As in my mind, that just, I got to do this. So I, I practice, you're talking, I was on a mission. So every day, I would punch the pine tree out in the back of our house. And I punch it until I got it to where my punch landed solid and stuck. And never dragged, never never bolted to where I could punch the base of the carpet. And I wouldn't rip my skin off layer by layer. Clear flat. And that was an ambition. I mean, I would throw I probably train an hour, two hours at home. And then go in class. Get bloody knuckled cry, wrap them end up taping them up and you know, and the whole time might Larry Just look at me like four kids. You need to quit. Why? Yeah.

Jose Flores: 18:28

Wow. So what's the whole purpose and you to the Judo school to learn how to calm you down even

Thomas Martain: 18:37

more, he would ask me to kick or punch or do anything. I would do it full bore. I would do it full bore. And sometimes, a lot of times, he would tell me Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop. I keep going. Because I wanted to prove myself till I want to let him know that he's not wasting his time. I want to be there. Because that was one of his things is if you don't want to be here, you can go. Right, you know, so I just wanted to tell him I wanted to be there so I yeah, I was you know, I would spar I wasn't a good fighter. I was a very peaceful kid. So I would just go ballistic and just you know, like in a berserker rage. And you know, end up looking like a total idiot. But that's how I would function. And he would say, hey, you look you can cool it down. And I was like, Yes, sir. And do it again. And do it again. Stupid. So but anyway. So when I when I was that was the viewpoint of Larry was like, Dude, this kid needs to get a grip. And I didn't realize the more I tried to prove myself, the more I tried to show him that I was tough enough and hard enough and I can take anything he dished out. I mean a lot of times my classes and I was in tears wow I would be riding my bike home just in tears. So I you know I really want to just to prove myself well every time I try to prove myself he would make the assessment of this dude has an anger problem so but I was a great student I was very mindful I was very respectful but he saw that and said you need to get a handle on so send me the master what Nabil was was awesome it was awesome master Awad Nabi me having that gear so it felt longer but probably about a good solid year of not going to the mat just doing all the outside peripherial workouts and training and then finally bringing the onto the mat he was very Japanese traditional. I did it made me focus even more. If I didn't follow everything to the detail. He would hit me with a shinai and hit me hard. It wasn't a little tap like to get my attention it that should I slept that bamboo slapped. And he was dead serious. Wow. So that brought me to the reality of I need to follow instructions I need to fathom to the detail. So me being with Master wat Nabil helped a lot. I'm saying that, you know, as an adult, as a as a trained fighter, a train instructor. Back then I thought he hated me. I thought, you know, I better not get out of line. And I better not quit. Because my instructor sent me here. And I better not quit because I don't want him to think that, you know, me being the only kid I was one of the few kids. And me being the only black kid there. Oh, no, I got to prove myself. I have to prove myself. So it was it was it was a battle. You know, there were there were times I didn't want to go because mess what Nami did what I tell you, he hit me with the shonai we're talking bloody welts.

Jose Flores: 22:16

And can you explain it as shanaya? You said it's bamboo. But for the people that don't know what it is. Okay, can

Thomas Martain: 22:22

you explain it as chinai is a is a bamboo. Kindle sword. It's a practice Kindle sword. It is split bamboo with a leather handle. And it has it's it's tied in three places and has a a leather normally a leather cover on the top tip to make it safe for for stabbings. But also it's used for strike. So you can you can hit someone full power with a strike full power and not kill them. Not on them. But on bare skin. Yeah, you feel it? You feel it. And here's here's the funny thing. Everything that I and this is something that I think every martial artist will understand everything that my instructors did for me, and the things that resignated and really made a difference for me. I carried on with my own students. Okay, so the the holding them accountable for their grades that wasn't just, you know, trying to make them good citizens or no, it was because, hey, my instructor did that to me. And it helped me it really helped me. I mean, I graduated with from high school with very decent grades grades good enough to earn a scholarship. And it wouldn't have happened without it wouldn't have happened. And the shehnai my students are very familiar with the shy. One of the traditions is even my 19 year old I break channeis on them. Yeah, he call it child abuse, right. But here's the funny thing, every single one of or every single student that made it beyond the initial, I'd say nine months of being in my dojo ended up being champions, or ended up being very successful competitive fighters. Okay, so, you know, almost like a rite of passage. None of them were harmed in any any way long term. And as a matter of fact, one of the gifts I would get almost every Christmas with would be particularly students that I broken ish nigh on. They would give me a shinai I knew Shana. They're basically saying, Yeah, well, someone else is going to go through what I went through.

Jose Flores: 24:54

Yeah.

Thomas Martain: 24:56

So I guess it's happy to all the BS.

Jose Flores: 25:00

Yeah, I mean, it's so many different ways now to teach. I mean, obviously, you came up with very traditional martial art way, way back then. I mean, anybody could relate to I seen the old school kung fu movies, where the instructor It was hard under understood it. So you grew up in that grew up, back then that was the way the student, it was the only way

Thomas Martain: 25:26

to Yeah. And to compound that being a Marine, and being a combat marine. And me being a marine combat trainer didn't help. But here's, here's the thing that was most unusual. Now, you, I have to say that, you know, everything was tempered, and everything was very planned out. It sounds brutal, but it really was the concern, and I'll give you an example. I would say probably a good 40% of my students. I still know they're still in my life. I would say maybe about 20% of my students. I met their children's birth. I am at every birthday party. I am involved directly in their lives. It's awesome. And it's it's a gift from God. It's not. It is something that has made me more whole. So, yeah, it's great to be an instructor. It's great to develop champions. It's great to be recognized. But that's the gift. The gift is the relationships and the respect of those relationships and the ability to be in someone's life in your life is enriched because of it. That's awesome. Wow, that's,

Jose Flores: 27:03

that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, you were We were just talking before you were talking about how you're involved with most of your student. Yeah. And now you're telling me that that's incorrect.

Thomas Martain: 27:12

Yeah. That's a blessing. That's a blessing from God. They're, they're in they're very old, well accomplished. And they they always credit me and saying, you know, a, you taught me, one of the mottos of our of our school is perseverance. Like, if you see our patch, you're gonna see the word, perseverance. Well, that was taught to me by Larry mcore. That's what that was his motto, perseverance. I carried it on in my life. And it helped me. I made it through Marine Corps training. I made it the specialized combat training. I, I made it through because of Larry Marine Corps. You know, that wasn't an accident. It was my mom saying, Dave, you can do anything. Anything you put your mind to, you can do it. And Larry saying, you will get it done. You will you If only failure is you quitting? Are you going to quit? And that was childhood. So, yeah, everything, everything plays into another. Everything is connected. People don't get that, but everything's connected. That is true.

Jose Flores: 28:19

Oh, man, that's, that's crazy. Just getting that in is like going through my head is like it's true. Yeah, yeah. And so let's backtrack to your use at the tournament. So that you do any sparring with like, kanske and you said you're striking wasn't as well. Right? So who you learned striking from or, okay.

Thomas Martain: 28:44

Okay, as I was coming up, and here's the thing that was really weird. As I was coming up, it was like a traditional, but I would do karate style punches, where they would be chambered quick and fast, a shuttlecock kind of thing. And, you know, chops and everything like that. And very effective for the tournament. So that was an end the tournament's back in the day, I want you to understand. I'm 57 years old. So the tournaments back in the day back in the 70s, when I was fighting, so I probably broke in the tournament's about mid 70s, all the way up through the 80s. Up until, like, 87 is when the last time I remember doing a tournament, you know, in my youth, and they really, they weren't, they weren't what you would think of tournament's today, you know, the Korean martial art style. There was no pads back then. There was no, there was no hand pads. It was just yeah, you could wrap your hands if you know you want to look cool, but it was all bare fist bare feet. And you didn't get a point because you came close to them. You got to a point when that person went down. Well, that person stopped. You know, so it was real. So, during that time, that's where I learned to develop using my legs and my hands and my hands. But in that traditional style when I went into the Marine Corps, that veracity that skill set, particularly Judo, mixed with with the Taekwondo, foot movements and change, change ups helped me a great deal. As a matter of fact, it actually, I'll credited for my, my little combat experience, saved my butt. butt. I started realizing, being on deployments, I went on three West packs, or two and a half West packs. And every time I went on a West pack, which is six months on deployment, as an active active Expeditionary Force, a ready expeditionary force for the United States Marines, on Navy ships going all over the world. And getting I went to Thailand, and might come on, I was like, What? 1920? Crazy, weirdo dude. All right. And most of the time you're chasing girls. Most time you're on deployment, you're chasing girls, drinking as much beer as you can humanly consume. Well, that wasn't my pursuit. My pursuit was I found out Thailand had a martial art. And I was an I actively in a taxi saw them training in a dirt patio area, or dirt front yard. I wanted that. So I actually tried it. But I found out then my hands were ineffective. And they were trying to teach me but there was a language barrier. And they only had so much tolerance for stupid American. So you know, so I'm trying to learn it. And I'm trying to relate my martial art experience instead of just giving up and, you know, becoming what Bruce Lee say, the empty vessel, right? Yeah, I was just trying to melt their style into mine, which I should have just stopped and learn my tie. So, you know, I'm trying to learn it. And, but from that experience, I realized, I don't have any hands. I don't have that good boxing hands, you know, and one of my buddies was a boxer. And he was like, yeah, let me let me help you and ship out, we'll train you. All he did was kick my butt every day. He was like, no fee, can't do this. Can't do that. We're just got box. And he just, he just handed my butt to me. So realizing that and then I started training in some Filipino martial arts when I was in the Philippines a lot. Because that's all I pursued. Right? That was my makeup dude. And all my buddies are out womanizing, and having a good time, which is nothing wrong with it, you know, you're doing what you're doing. But my big thing was, okay. Gotta have a beer. And I'm going to find a martial art place. Right? And I did that though. I found a traditional karate school that taught Filipino style fighting, Cali, and all that stuff. Little did I know, I'll move it. But little did I know that that was going to be a very big part of my life. But yeah, I finally learned hands. When I got out of the Marine Corps. I started training with Mike first Kimball instructor. I'll tell you, that guy just did it did so much for me. Coming out of the Marine Corps, you know, you're coming out with that mindset. I came out where I looked at civilians, like why aren't they working harder? Okay, I think pushing harder. You know, it was very weird. It's very weird. And right now I'm at a loss, I'm just add more memories. But we'll get back to his name and everything. I'll give you that. But what he had done is expose me to Kimble, which was hands from heck. more ways to hit and strike a person than you could shake a stick at it. And you couldn't shake it fast enough. And I'm thinking, well, this is not gonna be You can't do this in real life. And then I met his group. Holy crap. Holy crap. And this is on the west side of Long Beach. Oh, yeah. It was on Westside Long Beach right off and right on Santa Fe. But yeah, we're Navy housing used to be.

Jose Flores: 35:07

Okay. Well, I know that I went to Stevens middle school,

Thomas Martain: 35:11

so not too far away. Oh, not too far

Jose Flores: 35:13

away. We're nearby.

Thomas Martain: 35:15

Yeah, yeah. So Steve's Middle School is inside the neighborhood there. Yeah. Okay. If you go out to Santa Fe, there was a little laundromat. And then there was the, it was called Tiger crane, Kimbo. All right, and but it's the original. It's not the type of crane that I've heard stories about lately. It was the actual one, the real one, the real, the real, the real deal. When I met him, my wife, my wife is Filipina. So I met my wife in the Philippines. We ended up getting married. She came to United States. We've been married now. 34 years. Oh, congrats. Oh, yeah. So. So we, you know, I would run I would have these heavy steel circles in my hand, my wife and I would run two, three miles every every day. And I would see, I saw a school didn't know what Kimble was. I had no idea. No clue. Ran pass, took stuck my head in saw this white male biker looking dude, with the little little gut. And real nice, you know, cool. kind of rough around the edges. But I'm like, it's cool dude. And he said, just sit down and watch. And he must have had 50 students in the class. Kids group was probably a good solid 50 trained in a little warehouse. We used to be a mechanic's garage, but turned it into a school. Holy crap, dude. Those guys. And I didn't know being from Georgia. You know, I didn't know anything about gangs. I didn't know anything about anything. But what he was doing was pulling guys out of gangs and pulling them into martial arts, and keeping them out of gangs that talk and training these guys beyond what anyone should be trained in. That was my experience of learning hands and getting a good understanding. But I really did not learn hands until I met Muhammad grammas Muhammad of bkf. And my instructor and him were close friends. So they would come over and be calf used to use the school for training. And myself and Calvin wanek, who is also one of my classmates, great, great guy. He now works for Metro PD in Vegas. Great guy. He, he trained with them for kickboxing. And I was like, dude, I want to learn kickboxing I want to learn. So I started kind of hanging out, invited myself to learning and they're the ones that really taught me boxing, like real boxing. And it the funniest thing was, again, I'm new. I'm new to California, I'm new to Long Beach. And what they had done was I was so far behind them, they had boxing skills and skills, period. So my legs were good. I didn't understand movement. I didn't know how to work a ring. So they sent me to this Hispanic guy. Okay, this is bad guy was probably four foot nothing. older guy, probably in his 50s or 60s. He, this dude did things to me that would torturous. But he taught me boxing without even outwardly, he would tie my feet with with a rope and say stay on the line and move and keep the keep the rope tight. And you got to and then he taught me how to move, move on a line, shuffling my feet. And then he taught me how to take one foot off and pivot. And my pivot was so perfect that I was walking on these two parallel lines. And my pivot was so perfect that I could pivot and be on one line and still increase my power and my movement and you know, and he just made me to where I was a competitive amateur kickboxer that moved from competitive to professional in a matter of two years. That is insane. Yeah, no matter of two years. And that was that was my kind of breakthrough and and the kind of the basis For my the llama kempo system that I teach today it's a mixture of all of that. It's the mixture of the disciplines of boxing and, and in the Kimbo that I learned and the influences that Judo and I merged it. nobody's talking about mixed martial arts. Yeah, right. Well, my thing is, I stayed in each martial art and practice that martial art to its fullest. It wasn't I was I wasn't dabbling. No, I was in it. I was in it. That's where I lived. When I started winning boxing, I didn't even really have any respect for boxing because the reality is, I was just a traditional martial artist that was like, I don't know boxing is holy crap. You know? I've had my butt handed to me by more boxers. So know that. They call it the sweet science. It is the sweet, sweet science. The it is a sweet science. Yeah, but I ended up teaching. That's what I taught my students. My students ended up learning. Kind of a hybrid version of Kimbo, which is a llama kempo system of basically being a very attune kickboxer with that, that knows how to use and incorporate traditional weapons. You know, they can they'll switch and be able to switch and throw hook hook punches and overhead, overhead hooks, and then original come from nowhere. So that's that's kind of how they were brought up and trained. And I think that was one of the, one of the successes of my school. And that's how, that's how I was able to, unbeknownst to me, because it all happened at the end of my professional career. But I, I ended up getting three separate martial art Hall of Fame's over a period of well, over a period of two years, I got out of 2000, and women 1999 and 2000, I got my first Hall of Fame induction in 1999. I was inducted with Eric Lee and a handful of great martial artists that I didn't believe I was even supposed to be there. I'm like looking around going Holy crap, these guys. These guys, man. You know, I really did. I really did. I mean, I was joking. And, and I was lucky enough, they asked me to do a demonstration. At it's called the shuba force or international martial arts Hall of Fame. And at the same time, across the street from that event, was the Was it the think of some music awards? Right, right. So you have all these martial artists on one side of the street and the Music Awards on the other side street, busy street. But I brought my students with me, we did it, we did a demonstration. And the demonstration brought the room to tears of these hardened martial artists. And I'm trying to think there was a few celebrities there too, that are in the comedy world. I'm at a loss now to remember him. There was a black comedian. talks about martial art. I'll remember the second but he was there. There was some other movie people. And yeah, everybody was in tears. Yeah, it was it was you know, we're very fortunate. They asked us in advance. Three, I think was three weeks that I got a letter in the mail. And from that three weeks saying you're being inducted into an international martial art holophane under under that group, and they asked me, would you mind doing a demo, and we just kind of put it together, threw it together? And did it there. And it was we got so much and here's the thing that's really bad. The student that videotaped it died of cancer. And we are still looking for that tape. But a whole but the great thing is a whole handful of my students were able to be with me during that night. So that was a great thing.

Jose Flores: 44:33

Yes, that is that was a great thing that people didn't because now you just pick up the phone and everyone has it. Oh, yeah.

Thomas Martain: 44:41

Yeah. That was a funny thing too. Because a lot of people were like, dude, you I wish you like I did have students that would. One of my big things that I think is a weakness in my own character is I didn't like videos taken and and pictures taken during classes, right just didn't like it. I thought it was a distraction that was unnecessary. Now, in retrospect, I'm like, dang it, I wish I should have man. And a lot of the competitions that we went to, we were a poor school. We weren't like, you know, a few of our parents were solid, standing on solid ground. But you know, pretty much always on the west side of Long Beach, which is a decent area. Don't

Jose Flores: 45:26

get me wrong, it's

Thomas Martain: 45:27

a really nice area. But myself, we didn't have the resources where we owned a camera and we were going to videotape and back in those days, there were no phone cameras. Yeah. You look like a reporter from Channel Seven News. Or, you know, if you if you have frickin, you know, camera, and a lot of the competitions that I was in kickboxing all that stuff. There were always people saying, Hey, I got you on tape, you know, call me and do this. And you'd end up calling them and they never come through, or it's hard to get in touch with them. So, yeah, over the years, a lot of my students and their parents have taken videos and like I said, one of the main people that did Greg brown might say it, great student, great human being and passed away from cancer. His daughter was one of the top students I've ever trained ever. Dominic was an incredible in she's an incredible woman now. You know, graduated from she graduated from a southern college went to Chico. Not Spelman, but one of the black colleges in in the south. Graduated, you know, and she's out. She She has actually kind of like a YouTube channel for fashion and stuff that she's doing. Great. Great. You know, that's awesome. Fantastic. Fantastic. You know, like I said, a lot of my students, I'm so proud of them as people. You know, yeah. train them and they want all these championships. Oh, that's wonderful. And some of them became Pro. You know, some of them went pro and some of their children are pros now. Wow. You know, they're fighting like, before the podcast we were talking about one of my students owns a gym, out of out of Lakewood called The Body Shop. And Tonio McKee, who's the craziest guy you'll ever want to meet? But love him to death? Because Antonio's has no knee. He's known me through the hardest times, dude. Wow. Cuz I. I know, I'm kind of going all over the place. But keeping keeping that in mind and Tonio met me at a time where it was very hard, you know, I owning a school. I, I went, I became a respiratory therapist. So I went to school for respiratory therapy. And in the interim, because I didn't know if I was going to pass the state board or not. I said, hey, I've been doing martial arts for the last couple, you know, seriously, I'm gonna open up a school. So I ended up opening up a school taking the state board exam, passing it, passing it, and the school was already opened them. Oh, so all my attention was on the school. And I kind of let my respiratory therapy, which you know, sometimes I regret and sometimes I know God's in charge. And, and if things happen, exactly why they happen. They happen for a reason. But I push really hard in the martial art world. Well, Antonio, met me when I think the first time he met me, I was actually I met him. I actually saw him in his own a beeper business. That's how far back it was, right? Well, you know, the beeper business in Long Beach, but what he met he actually we actually taught, I was in an alley, in Long Beach on the west side of Long Beach. And I had a mattress taped around a telephone pole. And I was training for a fight that I was going to do in Vegas, big one fullcontact continuous fighting. All right. So I'm training and he drives Luckily, throws a few expletives out and said what are you doing? And I said, I'm training for a fight. And he we start talking and we've been friends ever since. And he's he's seen me through the good times, bad times. Great, great human being. Well, I was able to what as I was, bullet, let's talk about AI at that point in time. martial artists, kick boxers that not make a lot of money. Okay, let me give you an example. As a boxer, if I was an amateur boxer breaking into the pros, I can make 10,000 bucks as an advanced amateur. And then once I broke into Pro, I'm going to make an eight, six digit income, I'm gonna make a six digit on certain fights. You know, even if I lose, I'm going to make six. Right? kickboxing, I'd be lucky to make 3000 bucks 1500 was the norm. Wow. And you're taking heck a shot, same punishment sometimes worse. Right? That's. So at that point in time, I was also doing Wilmington, fights, Wilmington, warehouse fights. So I would fight in warehouses or parking lots in Wilmington. And then I would do Long Beach beach fights, which, you know, pretty much you would just, you would hear about it, say, Hey, we're going to meet up while for ocean, right at, you know, six o'clock, and it gets dark at seven. So it only lasts about 30 minutes. So they have two fights going on the beach. You know. And so it but you could win some fast money. And so I did that for a second. Just to earn enough money because I at that point in time I had my my first son was born, had to buy milk and buy diapers. You know, so literally fighting for a living. Yeah, that's, that's what I did. But I never had my, in my mind, I never pursued it as like, this is going to be my profession. I want to be the No, I just fought. Because the fighting. And I never if I was smarter, looking back, if I was smarter, I would have gotten better representation. I would have marketed myself better. You know, I would have probably got a whole heck of a lot further. At least, notoriety wise. But no writing wasn't my key thing. My key thing was training good people to be lethal in decent human beings. That was my that was my push. I did my self gratification. I might like I said my three Hall of Fame inductions surprised me. Wow. Because they there was no warning. There was no who who are watching. You know, one of the things that was said to me for the first Hall of Fame induction that I got. And the second one from the Masters group back when Spry is the handle it was hey, we've been monitoring your school and you over a period of a decade, like 10 years, you've developed over 400 champions. Wow, I'm like, how do you know what? I don't even do that? Well, they said, we're looking at the stats, we're looking at the amateur, competitive things. And then we also know You fool. We know who you are. Yeah, we've seen you. We all know you from the martial art world. This is what you've done. And we all sat down and agreed. Yeah, you should be recognized. The mind blowing I think I had no clue. I don't know. And I'll be very honest with you. Those Hall of Fame inductions. The most humbling and great thing to be recognized for what you do. But the best thing are my students. Okay, that's the best, right? Because they're living breathing examples of your training. And they, they constantly tell me constantly tell me see if you have I wouldn't have met you. Seafood. If I didn't get all that training. We're talking about I have students who ended up going all gamuts I have a student who are a handful students who got very high degrees, new nuclear engineering, physicians, FBI, all of these students, highly exceptional, but I also have students that went to state prison, or they went to county, and they they were literally their martial arts skills, things like train them save their lives. I had a student call me on the phone telling me see, I love you. I love you. I'm like, okay, what's going on? And he said, Yeah, I got stabbed in counting. And this happened this happened. But in he goes, I use this and I did that. And he goes Thank you see for like, thank you, I I wouldn't even be living I wouldn't be breathing in. That's horrible. But it's all so gratifying. And those same students are living better lives now. Because I didn't turn my back on him I, I told him Hey, look, you you are better than this and you need you need to come out of that world. And today they're they're living beautiful lives. That's good to hear. Beautiful, beautiful. And it's funny too, because that's that's everything. That's everything I accolades and you know, and it's funny, I've done the gambit of all martial arts, and I know I'm all over the place right now, but, but I've done the gambit. I've I've done fight coordinating for movies, I've done weapons, weapons, training, firearms for movies, I've done all that stuff. It's cool. But that's not that. It always falls back to the martial arts and always falls back to the type of people that I've been exposed to. And my students, I would say, you want to boil it down to its basic element. It's about you guys. I mean, I've known you since you were a young kid. That means everything you let's go back to column column vandusen Power of One founder. Yes. Colin and I knew each other back when we were just we'd fight anybody that looked at us weird. I'm not I don't want to put calling out and I'm saying all this respectfully. Yeah, totally respectfully. With with a great deal of love to but calling used to be a bad way. You know, Kalin was no joke. And we were boys, we were just best buds in the martial arts. And we've been in incident student parking lots. hotel lobby.

Jose Flores: 57:07

You brought that up? I think he told me the story ones are in the frozen but I think you guys were in an elevator. And for some reason or other you guys got up on the wrong floor. And there was a group of people already

Thomas Martain: 57:21

Well, that was already a disputed already it started. Yeah. martial art world. Yeah, it wasn't like, you know, we watch bad guys now. That we had interaction with Yeah, we Yeah, we had to do we have to deal with? Yeah, and And believe me, we walked away laughing.

Jose Flores: 57:41

They did. It did it.

Thomas Martain: 57:43

So yeah, I mean, combat news is is legit. Right? legit? And he's one of the few martial artists, karate guys. And there's a lot of them, but he's one one of them. That Yeah, you don't want to run up on him? You know? And even. We're older now. You know, this is back in our, our 20s and 30s. You know, but yeah, still wouldn't want to run up on him. He's a beautiful human being. I want you to understand. He's not some big headed tough guys now. Absolutely. Not. Absolutely not. And I don't want to portray that he. He's a very thoughtful, very kind human being who it was very genuine and loving. You know, let me make that infinitely clear. But if he's nobody, you know, he's nobody to play with now he's not.

Jose Flores: 58:46

So let's go back because you're about to tell your story on the Philippines. Yeah, martial art. So walk me through that now.

Thomas Martain: 58:54

Okay, well, I was exposed to it when I was in the Marines. unbeknownst to me, if you would have told me when I was a marine in the Philippines. Hey, dude, you're gonna marry a Filipina? I say you're nuts. That is not gonna happen. Dude. I'm not gonna be that guy. No, it's not gonna happen. Well, sure enough. I definitely did. And like I we just had our anniversary.

Jose Flores: 59:22

Oh, congrats. And 34 years 34.

Thomas Martain: 59:27

Yeah, we're married at eight. Oh, no. doing the math. Right. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And what's what's crazy about that is her family is part of the sablon style that they'll say part is the sablon style. Well, my Maestro is a family member. celadon yo Castillo, who was a guerrilla fighter in World War Two. All right, fought in the mountains, you know, horseback Yes. Japanese in the Philippines, he's the real deal. The dude, the dude, Scott hit heads up, blade, the blade with Japanese during World War Two. He's the real deal. And he actually taught law enforcement and military up until his elderly till he was elderly, because he was a world war two that he got dual citizenship. Well, he kind of the family kind of said, Hey, why don't you go into the United States go stay with with Sarah Thomas, and train him? Oh, because he's as he as our girl, he has our little baby girl. And I'll tell you a story. I'll back that up right after I tell you that. But he said you got our baby girl over there. A he's into it. So finishes training, finish the family's training. Because Because the dosey Potter's organization. And I don't think it's like the don't say parties. But it's the some one style of fighting is what he taught me. And the swallow style. So when he came over he, he actually started and finished my training in his 80s, or in his late 80s. And he actually had two strokes. Oh, while doing my training over like a year and a half. But a year and a half it took to train me up to where he said, Okay, I'm, I'm a teacher. And what was weird about he walked with a cane, walked very slow. But you put a blade or a Collie weapon in his hand. Dude was a monster. He's a 19 year old freaking crazy, dude. You know, it was amazing. Now backing that up. I always tell the story about when I met my wife's family. And we went back to where she's from, which is no running water, no electricity, no, nothing. All right. And as I was, as we were coming to visit the family, first time ever, this was back before we've, as a matter of fact, we went back my wife was pregnant with my first son. And the men kind of said, Hey, brother, and I'm like, Why are you calling me brother? Is it because I'm a black guy? Is that is that the reason? I didn't know that? Yes, I'm actually their brother. You know, they're, they're my two years. They're my, you know, they're my, they're my older members of the family. So they took me through the side, they're over there drinking under, under on a table under a little little roof there. And they started showing me Do keep in mind, we did. We backed we were literally off the plane, we're actually still trapped. So she is off talking to family. They take me off, they show me some stuff, you know, and they're they're just kind of feeling the out and I didn't know what they were doing. They don't know who I am. I don't know who they are. later down the road. I got my eyes split open. My lip was split open in two places. And I had a few welts on my arm. Or bruises on my arm and I don't bruises. I really don't. But those return sticks. Yeah, they do what they do. Right. So my wife sees me and she just goes off and she's into gala, which is actually not even at the gala. I think she was speaking for Zion. So and she's just going off, and I didn't realize what they were doing. And what they were doing was because I had their their girl. She's from a pretty large family. I had their girl who helped raise them. She helped raise most of her brothers and sisters. I took that girl from the family. And they didn't know if I was able to protect her take care of her. They didn't know that. So what they wanted to do is find out number one, where my heart was to show me skills and abilities that I could protect their little girl. I didn't know

Jose Flores: 1:04:37

I get a little emotional yet. Okay, so

Thomas Martain: 1:04:41

her brother Leto told me we believe it And he he said, and he didn't speak English very well. Matter of fact, Do you speak English? much at all. But in English in his broken, he probably practiced it. He, he looked at me dead, my eyes said, take care of my sister.

Jose Flores: 1:05:24

Yeah, man. That was everything, and that type of thing.

Thomas Martain: 1:05:34

So, learning to Filipino martial arts was something that, you know, was a rite of passage kind of thing. I'm very fortunate to learn it. And I actually have a student right now, who has taken it to a whole different level, because I taught from martial arts as Filipino Martial Arts in my school, too. So my students learned knife fighting, and in Cali, and they learned the principle, but they also did it in real life. Oh, we had, we had free for all where, Okay, I'm gonna stab you. And I'm gonna, I'm going for it, I'm gonna stab you. And we had aluminum and wooden knives. And it's great to learn to principle. But it's even better to do it. And because of that, I got better as a as a practitioner in it and as an instructor, but my students actually know the reality of blades, they understood the reality of, of distance and movement, and, and a lot of principal fighter fighting with knives and stuff. I don't know if it's based in reality or not, but it's just, you know, it is what it is, but from my limited experience. And so donyo was always about being lawful and ethical. You know, don't, don't kill a person when you can, name or disarm them. Don't don't mean, disarm a person when you can just and disarming wasn't even the goal. But he always went less. No, always less if you can kill, don't, don't ever kill, he said, and that was one of his principles don't ever kill. When you could, you know, disable them and get them down either. Or if you have to disable, try your best to just just cause pain, and make them pause and get them in a better position. And he said, if you can avoid the situation avoided completely. No, he always had a step down from what, what to be done. Which when it gets my Marine Corps mentality, which when it gets by fight mentality, and it was a good balance, but my and my students learn, going back to my students learn the reality of it. It was never just we would learn the principles, they would learn how to parry and block and redirect and do stuff. But they also had to learn that the real side of it. So they got to a point where, you know, we had to incorporate Judo and grappling into that to learn how to do things. It was a great experience. But But I have Ralph Ralph, live Ralph antilla Santos, but Ralph tele is probably like one of the top Collie practitioners right now in Southern California. And he studies under a Filipino master that he's taken his skills, mastery, absolute mastery, ridiculous and he's one of my top black belts. So every everything plays into another I have students who have been students of mine for 20 years. And now one of them Clark or some we call them Chuck Dora buttons Clark. He's Wing Chun. And now he's one of the top Wing Chun guys in the world in the world and actually has gone so far as that it men's son, and his family lineage has accepted him completely. That's awesome. Completely. It's great. So it's such a small world it's said you know, yeah, they they learn the llama kipple system they have. Everything is based in the reality of fighting everything is based in you know, the ethical and moral side of it, but they go off they do other things like Antonio Antonio's MMA. His Son, AJ, he fights Bella Torre now and he's undefeated. I think he got 12 to 18 matches undefeated. tendency he very much under an Tonio teaches them the llama kibble system, like kicking movement, everything. So it's great, you know, things, things go on way beyond me out of my hands. You know, you plant the seed, and that's it.

Jose Flores: 1:10:18

And so, obviously now you're because when we're talking since I'm out of the martial art world, right, you know, right. Now, I'm just gonna say, Do you ever get that itch back? Like, I want to go back or every day, every minute?

Thomas Martain: 1:10:36

I'm not gonna lie. One of the one things I was doing the career I'm doing, because I'm in law enforcement, and I was when I went into law enforcement, martial arts was one of my big things. Still, I mean, it never went away. So I would go, I think back in 2003, I went into the what's called the police and fire Olympics, and fought in the police and fire Olympics. That's FBI, DEA, all police agencies from all over the world, the whole world come together in an Olympics, and everything from baseball, soccer, everything boxing, everything you could imagine, including martial arts. And from there, I've earned three gold medals, the silver and a bronze and the grand championship trophy from the police Olympics over a period of two Olympics.

Jose Flores: 1:11:34

That is crazy. Yeah, good. Yeah.

Thomas Martain: 1:11:37

But that was early on in my career. I was 2003. And I think 2005 is when I did the police Olympics. I did it in San Diego, and I did it in San Francisco. The later on in my career, I was a I was I got a chance to work with some incredible, incredible force instructors. Now, I had been a force instructor since 2003. But I would say 2018 or 19, I became a force instructor for the academy for LA County Sheriff's Academy. And man, I'll tell you some incredibly talented, skillful. I mean, to the bone, skilful, knowledgeable, martial artists and fighters, who are part and I was very, very blessed to be even in the room with them. Just in the room, and I'm saying that Yeah, okay. Martin, you've done a lot. Yeah, happen a lot. But I don't know everything. Like that. So, you know, going with this group, I had an opportunity to be exposed to crop Mugu. You know, and had to get certified in it and learn it, because that's what the sheriff's department does. That's their, that's their methods and skill set for teaching everyone. And it's a great, well organized curriculum, to learn, reminded me very much of each m Ru, karate, very much even down to the techniques. But a lot of real world stuff. Some stuff I agreed with some stuff I didn't, but not my business. Because I had to learn it. It's part of my career. But also to some of the people in my group and some of the people I work with. Holy crap, just incredible. Guys and girls who are just dedicated to the martial arts and passing it on for law enforcement, so they could be very effective. Yeah, I truly believe that. You know, there's a lot of good departments a lot of there's, you know, there's more ways than one way to skin a cat. Right, right. But I truly believe our department has done a great job. And, you know, my, my Sergeant who is a crazy man was my old boss. He's the my old boss. But he's a great guy. Great, great human being. I was very, very fortunate to be part of the 14.

Jose Flores: 1:14:36

Oh, man. That's awesome. Oh, Mr. Martin, you have my brain right now. It's about to explode. It's like to I'm all over the place. That's awesome. I mean, when I got a hold of you,

Unknown: 1:14:50

I think

Jose Flores: 1:14:52

I was not expecting I will. I knew I was gonna get some good stuff, but this is where we will be on there. What I prepared for this was awesome. Cheers. I loved it. Yeah. No, this was awesome. So I mean, you don't have to, but I always like to surprise people with this. any parting words, before we leave anything you would like to say, before we leave.

Thomas Martain: 1:15:12

Um, one thing, go back to what I was talking about. Mike Davis, Sergeant Mike Davis is probably retired by now. The department, but I'm personally as a as a man, I want to thank him, you know, for giving me the opportunity to be with the unit, and all all all the guys. Bridgette and all those people in the unit, very thankful to be a part of that. Now, fast forward, parting words. I think martial arts has been probably the best thing that I that has ever happened to me. It's given me the strength to do and stay focused in my life. When I left the Marine Corps, I was legit marine cousin drinkin fighting, you name it like nobody's business, or it was respectful, very much in control. didn't want to do anything outside of you know, military law and everything. But yeah. I've I've been in a couple of fights and bars. Yes, I have. But the the main thing of it is, martial arts is formed me and and kept me at a standard when I left the Marine Corps. And I'll give an example of that. When I left the Marine Corps, I stopped drinking completely, never touched a drop since it wasn't that I had an issue wasn't that I had a problem. It was I knew if I was going to marry the woman that wants to marry and bring her to a foreign country and be responsible for alcohol, no part of it. And then because of the martial arts. Alcohol was never part of it. It's not. So I it kept me straight. It kept me on on a path where nothing was impossible. And I will tell everyone This and this is just my point of view. That martial arts saved me. My students saved me. very fortunate.

Jose Flores: 1:17:23

We're very fortunate to be here today, sir. Mr. Martin, thank you for bing here today Thank you, everyone at home for listening. Mr. Thomas Martin, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.